tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2978232334912384498.post1424763585062967824..comments2024-03-28T21:06:06.580-05:00Comments on Dreams of Mythic Fantasy: 5 Reasons why 5e Dungeons & Dragons will use the OGLJameshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08192212467523179768noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2978232334912384498.post-9168001250882315722013-05-07T15:38:59.929-05:002013-05-07T15:38:59.929-05:003E has always been an over bloated and complicated...3E has always been an over bloated and complicated system to GM for me. I really wish WoTC would just forget 5E and keep publishing new 4E material anyway. 4E is great to GM and play, there's nothing wrong with it, it is a new system unto itself and redefined D&D, WoTC is taking two steps back catering to the wishes of the 3E crowds who wont come back anyhow, they're all playing PF anyhow, so let them.BigKahunnahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13252339826805369289noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2978232334912384498.post-47183565244238072022012-01-14T11:12:13.160-06:002012-01-14T11:12:13.160-06:00If it works, I suspect most player's to end up...If it works, I suspect most player's to end up on a sort of 3.x end of the spectrum. God only knows, what WotC will call it, or exactly what it'll look like.Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08192212467523179768noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2978232334912384498.post-50355519921075468732012-01-14T11:10:10.381-06:002012-01-14T11:10:10.381-06:00LotFP has at least 3 products that have broken 1k ...LotFP has at least 3 products that have broken 1k in sales. <br /><br />And no, OSR sales, even in potential would not be worth WotC abandoning 4e. Not alone. <br /><br />But, abandoning 4e is what they're doing and from what they've said, I think they're going for the whole enchilada. <br /><br />And "pre 3e" style of play, perhaps in a bastardized form, will increase. Because more people will try it. And it's more fun.Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08192212467523179768noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2978232334912384498.post-79151764354194611722012-01-14T09:42:16.133-06:002012-01-14T09:42:16.133-06:00I like those quotes from Mike Mearls and Monte Coo...I like those quotes from Mike Mearls and Monte Cook<br /><br />BUT<br /><br />don't they imply that the playtest will be a bit of a farce?<br /><br />What if people don't want an edition that's compatible with everything? What if they hated AD&D want 3rd edition back?anarchisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05546197561922726279noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2978232334912384498.post-28175210160441727302012-01-13T23:56:25.689-06:002012-01-13T23:56:25.689-06:00It would seem to me that the goal is to gain back ...It would seem to me that the goal is to gain back the growing number of folks fleeing WotC. 4e has been a failure and I feel even 4e fanboys don't touch the number of folks playing many of the 3.X clones and OSR games. From Fantasycraft by Crafty games to Paizo's Pathfinder and the Troll Lord's C&C, that's a huge cut into a former D&D fanbase. <br /><br />Goodman Games going for a Old school clone like game, and the hype behind the new Hackmaster has got to be putting a whole into a former D&D fanbase too. <br /><br />Fact is 4e fractured the community and now we have hundreds of ways to play "D&D", so do we need a 5e? Is it going to pull enough folks away from games they have been playing for years now, just because they throw us a few bones and slap D&D on the cover?<br /><br />I don't have a 100% solid opinion yet but as of right now, I wish WotC would just go away.<br /><br />ERIC!ERIC!https://www.blogger.com/profile/18251132223571608976noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2978232334912384498.post-5142284665185335732012-01-13T19:36:24.958-06:002012-01-13T19:36:24.958-06:00No doubt OSR sales have grown in the last couple y...No doubt OSR sales have grown in the last couple years. Publishers have thankfully shown numbers on a few occasions. But the growth has been moderate; where one could sell 100 copies a few years ago, now one can sell 300. But do you really envision OSR sales increasing the two orders of magnitude (!) a company like WotC would need? Are there *that* many people flocking to OSR purchases instead of other purchases?<br /><br />Maybe (and that's a *big* maybe) there's very little overlap between the purchasers (or would-be purchasers) of LotFPRPG, AS&SoH, OSRIC, S&W, LL, DCCRPG, and the various vintage TSR copies of the games (sold in the after market). So *maybe* the potential unit sales for a universally praised OSR game is the sum of all those sales. (But the evidence I've seen suggests otherwise; I and others I know have bought several of those games.) And *maybe* that's one of aforementioned orders of magnitude.<br /><br />But where does the other 10x the number of people come from? Where are the signs that the OSR is going to reach it?<br /><br />Is it that there are 10x the number of current (idealized) OSR-preferring buyers out there who are simply buying nothing today because they don't happen to like what WotC currently has to offer and because they haven't heard of the OSR stuff?<br /><br />Is there any evidence that the yet-to-be-realized OSR market is worth losing existing 4e players over? (And based on 4e sales, that number of players is really big. Generally #2 or #1 in sales, depending on the person making the argument, and the data they are looking at.)<br /><br />Or is it more likely that WotC is trying to recover some portion of the 3e-based players, who were lost to pathfinder? There's plenty of hard data out there that shows 3e-derived sales are way, way, way higher than OSR sales.Guy Fullertonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12034114718540912559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2978232334912384498.post-81775921108683541952012-01-13T19:03:06.116-06:002012-01-13T19:03:06.116-06:00Not my argument. OSR sales as a whole, is the issu...Not my argument. OSR sales as a whole, is the issue. That, and potential OSR sales. <br /><br />D&D belongs to WotC. That's going to be their P.O.V.<br /><br />Ever see that old Frasier episode, where Roz quits her job, then regrets it? Someone, Niles I think, jokingly suggests she waltz into the office like nothing ever happened and pretend she never quit. Which, she promptly does.Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08192212467523179768noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2978232334912384498.post-15219483308843181702012-01-13T18:59:09.330-06:002012-01-13T18:59:09.330-06:00My argument is, that 4e compatibility is going to ...My argument is, that 4e compatibility is going to be limited. Partially based on the Mike Mearls quote I listed in the post.Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08192212467523179768noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2978232334912384498.post-82974976255932479312012-01-13T18:34:54.691-06:002012-01-13T18:34:54.691-06:00The counter-argument is that WotC also wants 4e st...The counter-argument is that WotC also wants 4e stuff to be compatible with 5e, right? How does one manage 4e compatibility without using material that's beyond the scope of the 3e SRD and its derivations?Guy Fullertonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12034114718540912559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2978232334912384498.post-38768920442352026372012-01-13T18:33:10.164-06:002012-01-13T18:33:10.164-06:00This comment has been removed by the author.Guy Fullertonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12034114718540912559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2978232334912384498.post-32139580896314324342012-01-13T18:25:39.640-06:002012-01-13T18:25:39.640-06:00Also regarding the $12k kickstarter for AS&SoH...Also regarding the $12k kickstarter for AS&SoH: That's <i>awesome</i> for Jeff, and a <i>very</i> strong OSR total, but the workings behind the 12k number are totally unrealistic outside of small press / vanity press.<br /><br />Jeff isn't pushing it through distribution (if he were, his portion of the $12k would only be $6k or so), and his average cost of materials/production per kickstarter is relatively high (because of the T-shirt and free shipping, which isn't media mail b/c of the T-shirt).<br /><br />It's not clear what the upper bound on OSR unit sales is yet (but thanks to Raggi's transparency, the numbers are becoming clearer). He has 168 pre-sales, which is strong for the OSR, but it's not yet clear what the sales tail looks like, and it could be mostly pdf buyers from here on out. (i.e., the rest of his sales will probably not be at $75 per unit.) Even if he's so lucky as to match LotFPRPG's sales (600+) over a length of time, he may only take in another $4k (total) over the life of sales.<br /><br />Not that that's bad, mind you, but I wager his per-hour wage from this effort ends up being lower than you'd expect. And I'm sure Jeff isn't paying his health insurance from his intake on AS&SoH.<br /><br />My point being that, from the perspective of a company like WotC, who is paying some significant fraction of multiple peoples' salaries (and benefits) to produce one product, that $12k and 168 pre-sales probably looks terribly insignificant. Even if you factor in WotC's inherent ability to make more sales of an equivalent product (through presence, brand recognition, and marketing), I'm having a hard time seeing how WotC sees AS&SoH as any kind of reason to produce OSR-like games.Guy Fullertonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12034114718540912559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2978232334912384498.post-41217303644112866332012-01-13T18:18:47.988-06:002012-01-13T18:18:47.988-06:00The more alien material they bring in, the further...The more alien material they bring in, the further from compatibility it'll take 5e. And the greater the risk of gamers giving the game a pass. WotC not needing the license, isn't the issue.Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08192212467523179768noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2978232334912384498.post-90668443935964331652012-01-13T17:51:11.689-06:002012-01-13T17:51:11.689-06:00"You can't create D&D without [the OG..."You can't create D&D without [the OGL]!"<br /><br />It's (arguably) true that <i>we</i> can't create D&D without the OGL.<br /><br />However, WotC isn't us. They own the IP and they can deploy it <i>without using a license</i>.<br /><br />If 5e ends up looking something like current games built from the 3e or 3.5 SRD, then it will be possible to clone those similar parts. But any parts that <i>don't</i> look like the relevant SRD or other OGL derivations based on it will be more challenging, if not impossible, to clone.Guy Fullertonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12034114718540912559noreply@blogger.com